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If this game is going to succeed, you need to balance teams


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#1 KyRoS

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Posted January 21 2013 - 09:24 PM

I've been playing a lot, and my skill level is medium at best, but I was just on a game where everyone on my team was 1-15 type of score, except one guy who was like 12-15.

Let me give you some advice as a 41 year old gamer who has played everything there pretty much is... If you want this game to have ANY chance of being a success, then you gotta balance teams somehow. Nobody wants to get R@ped like that every game. I am in a clan of 20+ people and guess how many I can get to play this game? That's right, zero. And my clan Realm of Chaos (look them up on TWL if you want) was 1-2 in COD4 league play with about a 22-2 record. But nobody wants to play it because the teams are always FUBAR.

The top tiered players are just so good, one guy can dominate a game. But when you join a game, get owned hard core... how likely are you to come back? I like this game, a lot in fact, but nobody I know will play it because the MM sucks and teams are always jacked. Very few games are balanced. This game will be dead in no time (if it already isn't, I see the same players a LOT) if you don't find a way to make it FUN for both noobs and vets alike. If the skilled guys were on separate teams, it wouldn't be so bad, but they are always stacked on the same team. And to top it off, I see them switch teams all the time so they can be on the same team. Not a healthy environment for a game that is a niche game to begin with.

Signed, a concerned gamer and fan.

Edited by KyRoS, January 21 2013 - 09:26 PM.


#2 Rei

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Posted January 22 2013 - 01:07 AM

Now to think of this from the other perspective. What if you want to play with a friend who is really good and work on your teamwork? Suddenly the game just autobalances you and your friend apart. Sure it's sometimes fun to play against each other, but you don't really get what you wanted done.

Honestly, I feel the best way to get better is to be defeated in the first place.

However, it is true in most cases teams get pretty stacked.

Edited by Rei, January 22 2013 - 01:07 AM.

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#3 Azrael39

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Posted January 22 2013 - 03:06 AM

Hawken could have the option to balance teams better when more people play the game.  With a small player base would you rather wait 10 minutes a match so players of your Skill level can play with you?  Or wait 10 seconds so you can just get in and play with random people?  Also, over the last month of playing this game I've picked up quite a few skilled players as friends on my list.  I like to play with them, we chat about random stuff and co-ordinate our attacks on the headsets.  We tend to win easily over most pug teams.  I'd rather play with my friends though than play with silent pugs.  I win more matches than I lose but I still lose matches.  We all do.  The best way to get better is to play higher skill level players and emulate what they do to you.  Also read the forums for tips, ask questions, and watch all the youtube gameplay footage you can.
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#4 Akaon

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Posted January 22 2013 - 05:44 AM

I do feel you get matched up against players of roughly your level, but the team balancing for that round seems unreliable at best. Also, some people stack teams and some people leave when it's not working out as they had hoped, further unbalancing teams.... I mean, i don't mind swapping to a losing team to help them out, but i don't want to do this every single time because some people decide to leave.
Also, most people refuse to swap to a losing team in fear of getting stomped themselves, even if that means playing 6v2 (partially because you know the chances of someone else swapping with you are slim).

There's more than just bad matchmaking going on imo.

#5 KyRoS

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Posted January 22 2013 - 06:17 AM

C'mon Rei, I played against you yesterday and will say, despite the fact that I was dying a lot, but fortunately getting quite a few assists, the teams were fairly balanced and it was a lot of fun. I agree that to get better, you need to play better players. But the match I'm talking about last night was the exact opposite. All of the really good players were on the same team. Now, if this is a result of the MM system, then it is failing.

I'll agree with you guys about playing with friends. I play and lose about 90% of the time, when I play with my 7 year old son. It's frustrating, but this game has a fairly low player base and it is what it is. The thing is, this game is brutal for new players. Until they get server browser, ranked games, etc., then this game needs to make some changes or players are going to come in, as some of my friends have (and most ofthese guys are talented FPS vets), get smoked and not even get a shot off, then give up in frustration.

@Azrael39 - Look, I hear ya man. I've got some good players on my friends list and would like to have more, just for the sake of playing with good talent and even having a few of them on my team occasionally. And remember, I play this game, despite the frustration that comes with stacked teams. But would you rather be with your friends on a stacked team, own everyone, and watch this game die quickly and see no new maps or anything because of lack of funding or would you prefer to see new players play the game, have fun, and learn to play without getting curb stomped by vets?

Like Akanon mentioned, if some of the really good players (and you all know who you are, hell, many of you know probably recognize me as I play so much and play with you guys a lot) would switch teams and try to keep them fairly balanced, it would go a long ways towards promoting this game.

I guess the point is that, at the rate things are going, there is only going to be a cult following of this game. I'm pretty sure the player base is quite low. I'm sitting on like 34k HC's and over 11K MC's with nothing I feel like spending them on. My fear, and this is based on my experiences with friends and such, is that because of the low player base and the fact that there is usually one or 2 elite players on a team, new players are going to give up in frustration and this is really too bad because Hawken is one of the best games out there right now.

#6 burns1124

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Posted January 22 2013 - 06:42 AM

@OP

Firstly, if you are indeed a 41 year old gamer, who has played "everything", you would understand that:

1.) It's beta, they have said in many, many dev posts that MM is still being worked on, it's not perfect, no MM is, even your precious CoD.  Joining on friends completely breaks any kind of MM, and private servers and a server browser are coming, hopefully in February.

2.) CoD is not a proper benchmark for judging a game, it's skill cap has been and will always be ridiculously low, and will continue to be low so that casual gamers and people like your 7 year old will get to play it and enjoy it, that's it's marketing niche, a very large one in fact.  Judging other titles that are not even remotely close in terms of gameplay or mechanics (read: this ain't no fuzzy bunny meatbag fps)  If you are even remotely close to as old as you say you are, you would understand that.

3.) You have no idea how many players have been waiting for something to spend their HC/MP on, that are not playing.  You have no idea how many players there are active, only the ability to baselessly speculate.  This game does not have the media coverage, financial backing, or rabid teenage jerkwad fan base that CoD or Halo has (note: anything after Halo2 was garbage, 2 was even bordering garbage) from being XBL's cash cow for 10+ years.  This game is also pc only, which factors in to a smaller subsect of the gaming community.  Once again, if you are indeed so experienced in online gaming, you would understand this.

4.) QQ threads belong in general discussion, this is that.  You lose games likely because either you, or your teammates think this is CoD and that you can Rambo in and headshot 5 people after playing the game for 20 minutes.  This is Hawken, with the exception of DM, it's a TEAM game.  Whoever plays better as a TEAM wins.  Individual skill gets you a positive KDR, it does not win games.  


Seriously, MM is just shuffling the deck, and the switch teams button gets abused.  

ANECDOTAL EVIDUNCE:
Played for about 3 hours last night, joined on a friend (amazingly my friend list actually worked last night).  Others joined on him as well totaling 4 players.  Played 4 games with those 4 working together in VOIP, supporting etc.  Won 2 lost 2, the wins we 45-38, and 62-15.  Losses were 12-67 and 30-32.

MM sucks, things will change, it's beta.

#7 Lillia

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Posted January 22 2013 - 06:42 AM

My first few games had me matched up against level 20-25 brawlers, infiltrators and Freds. But perhaps it's because I'm pretty much fresh out of Planetside that I'm used to the mentality that there's always going to be someone better equipped and better oriented, that I was able to stick with the game and get used to the flow. I'm a very average player, and I'm always teamed up with my friend echra.

Needless to say, I can see the concern with these match ups. They're a bit deterring and really quite frustrating at times, but really, it's just a matter of getting that server browser back, and possibly tidying up matchmaking.

At the moment, the game has such a low population that I end up seeing many of the same players over and over again throughout the day, and I'm sure that matchmaking just struggles in matching up similarly leveled players because there just aren't enough to go around in terms of balance. In the end, I guess it just has to do with everyone's patience.

Really though, nothing I'd say hasn't been said by the people above, and I've only been playing for about 10 hours, so I don't think my opinion would hold much weight anyway.

#8 MajorMojo

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Posted January 22 2013 - 09:48 AM

I think the problem is due mostly to a small player base.  If MM connects me quickly to a match it tends to be more even teams.  If it takes a while it is probably having a hard time finding a match and when it does it is more likely to be lopsided.  I have found that if I stick around through one or two lopsided matches it usually gets better.

Sure this is beta but I think Kyros has some valid points.  How many new players will get frustrated, quit, and never try the game again even after the "official" release?

I think they should get the server browser and private servers going ASAP to keep the clanners and elite players separate from the noobs.   MM will work fine with new players if they keep the skilled / experienced players out of those servers.  

Until then the skilled players can do the game a favor by self balancing the teams.  If you and your buddy are dominating one of you should switch teams and see how well you do against each other.  This game will need to keep new players coming to survive.

#9 RedVan

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Posted January 22 2013 - 10:45 AM

Needs more server browser.

Yesterday, myself, zeshi, and someone else were taking turns getting fuzzy bunny on on the bad team :lol: .  It was pretty funny.

Something the community of Fallen Empire: Legions did was set up a community VOIP and invite noobs to it.  We would hold newblood pickup games, where experienced players would pick teams, then teach the team how to play together.  Of course, this is really only possible with a server browser (fuzzy bunny matchmaking).

Another benefit of server browser is that, should a noob decide they don't like getting owned in one particular server, they can join another, and not be automagically placed back into the same server via matchmaking.

#10 x1aa

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Posted January 22 2013 - 10:56 AM

View Postburns1124, on January 22 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Individual skill gets you a positive KDR, it does not win games.

How to lose TDM with all people in 1 team having a positive k/d ?
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#11 KyRoS

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Posted January 22 2013 - 11:19 AM

@burns1124

Yes I am a 41 year old gamer and yes, I've played games since I was about 6 years old. I was a bit drunk when I posted this thread, so I can see where it comes of as whining, but the bottom line is I love this game. Sadly, I don't see very many people playing and those that I talk in to trying it, quit... so.

1) Yes, I know it's beta. I'm trying to say that the game needs auto-balance to keep the skill even on teams. Maybe you could give a damn, but I'd like to see this game succeed and everyone I've gotten to download has quit because they get butt hurt. Secondly, COD is anything but precious to me. I despise Activision, IW, and esp. Bobby Kotick. I'm about as far from a fan boy of any company (although I think Valve, Runic games, Red5, and others are doing it right).

2) COD had nothing to do with my post to to talk about the skill level of some of the guys I play with (not me) and that these FPS vets who always dominate shooters just don't seem to care for the game and the number one complaint is that it's just not fun going up against top tiered players.

3) This game raised 28 million dollars in funding (Source: http://venturebeat.c...nch-draws-near/) so don't tell me they have no money. A lot can be done with that kind of cash, yet the devs for this game are, curiously, quite absent on the forums. I find this rather strange, as other F2P games like League of Legends and FireFall devs post on a constant basis.

4) This thread was supposed to be about auto-balance, a SUGGESTION, thus why it was in this forum, in order to get and keep players. Your constant comparisons to COD are misinterpreted, as I explained above.

Perhaps it would be best if people said nothing, the devs got no feedback and players just don't play? Is that how you would have it? I'm trying to relay the feedback that I'm getting as to why I can't get people to play. Take it as you wish.

Edited by KyRoS, January 22 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#12 burns1124

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Posted January 22 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostRedVan, on January 22 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Needs more server browser.

Yesterday, myself, zeshi, and someone else were taking turns getting fuzzy bunny on on the bad team :lol: .  It was pretty funny.

Something the community of Fallen Empire: Legions did was set up a community VOIP and invite noobs to it.  We would hold newblood pickup games, where experienced players would pick teams, then teach the team how to play together.  Of course, this is really only possible with a server browser (fuzzy bunny matchmaking).

Another benefit of server browser is that, should a noob decide they don't like getting owned in one particular server, they can join another, and not be automagically placed back into the same server via matchmaking.

I love this idea Red, and I know that you, Zesh, and more than a few of the forum regulars have at one time or another been a party to, or been the victim of "stacked" teams.

The BSB does this thing on Fridays, we call it fight club but it really can be whatever, maybe we should have newbie night and try to get people together and show the basics of the different game types.  Yes, having a server browser would infinitely make this easier.  Yes then others could make "new player friendly" servers like in many other games.

What does this achieve tho?  It makes for a bunch of games with people in it of comparable skill yes, but that does not increase the players on that servers skill in as much as getting face f'd by a team or a few better players.

The only way one gets better is by challenging themselves and going up against people with better skills then themselves.  I didn't get better because I fought 100 level 1 CR-Ts in 50 pub games.  I got better because I faced players like you, Zeshi, Decoy, etc.  I still get destroyed near instantly when Zeshi is in my games, or you, or Decoy.  These are some of the best players that are active right now, hell maybe some people even better than yall will come back after the reaper update, who knows.  

Do I like it? No.  Do I rage quit and uninstall the game like people seem to think new folks do as soon as they lose a few games 60-10? No.  I take a break, play something else for awhile, or hell, even go outside!  The point is, MM is what we have, it's been critque'd, ad infinitum, and it's not going to change anytime soon.  

Numbers imbalance is easy enough to fix, hit the swap teams button, being on the losing side has little effect on your personal exp/hp gains. The fact that people don't play the tutorials, don't think about region, don't use VOIP (or use it too much in an annoying/trolling fashion) read anything, watch a stream, or do anything past furiously click "DEPLOY" is the problem.  I can't tell you how many people I have seen standing dead still shooting till they over heat, don't air burst, don't dodge, go off on solo Rambo missions, etc.  All of these things will contribute to a stunning loss if someone from the other team notices, and actually uses the in game VOIP to coordinate their team.

tldr: Server browsers would be nice, they won't help people that don't want to work for it to improve.  All they will do, is be a haven for bad play, and poor growth as players.

P.S. To the guy that quoted me, I don't fully understand your question, I apologize for not responding to you, but here's a guess:
I've had games with everyone on the team had a positive k/d except that one guy who was 0/15/2, you win TDM by playing WITH your team, doing anything else just makes you a detriment to said team.

Edited by burns1124, January 22 2013 - 12:04 PM.


#13 TwiceDead

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Posted January 22 2013 - 11:30 AM

Check it out! Another prophet!
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#14 RedVan

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Posted January 22 2013 - 11:40 AM

View Postburns1124, on January 22 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

View PostRedVan, on January 22 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Needs more server browser.

Yesterday, myself, zeshi, and someone else were taking turns getting fuzzy bunny on on the bad team :lol: .  It was pretty funny.

Something the community of Fallen Empire: Legions did was set up a community VOIP and invite noobs to it.  We would hold newblood pickup games, where experienced players would pick teams, then teach the team how to play together.  Of course, this is really only possible with a server browser (fuzzy bunny matchmaking).

Another benefit of server browser is that, should a noob decide they don't like getting owned in one particular server, they can join another, and not be automagically placed back into the same server via matchmaking.

I love this idea Red, and I know that you, Zesh, and more than a few of the forum regulars have at one time or another been a party to, or been the victim of "stacked" teams.

The BSB does this thing on Fridays, we call it fight club but it really can be whatever, maybe we should have newbie night and try to get people together and show the basics of the different game types.  Yes, having a server browser would infinitely make this easier.  Yes then others could make "new player friendly" servers like in many other games.

What does this achieve tho?  It makes for a bunch of games with people in it of comparable skill yes, but that does not increase the players on that servers skill in as much as getting face f'd by a team or a few better players.

The only way one gets better is by challenging themselves and going up against people with better skills then themselves.  I didn't get better because I fought 100 level 1 CR-Ts in 50 pub games.  I got better because I faced players like you, Zeshi, Decoy, etc.  I still get destroyed near instantly when Zeshi is in my games, or you, or Decoy.  These are some of the best players that are active right now, hell maybe some people even better than yall will come back after the reaper update, who knows.  

Do I like it? No.  Do I rage quit and uninstall the game like people seem to think new folks do as soon as they lose a few games 60-10? No.  I take a break, play something else for awhile, or hell, even go outside!  The point is, MM is what we have, it's been critque'd, ad infinitum, and it's not going to change anytime soon.  

Numbers imbalance is easy enough to fix, hit the swap teams button, being on the losing side has little effect on your personal exp/hp gains. The fact that people don't play the tutorials, don't think about region, don't use VOIP (or use it too much in an annoying/trolling fashion) read anything, watch a stream, or do anything past furiously click "DEPLOY" is the problem.  I can't tell you how many people I have seen standing dead still shooting till they over heat, don't air burst, don't dodge, go off on solo Rambo missions, etc.  All of these things will contribute to a stunning loss if someone from the other team notices, and actually uses the in game VOIP to coordinate their team.

tldr: Server browsers would be nice, they won't help people that don't want to work for it to improve.  All they will do, is be a haven for bad play, and poor growth as players.

P.S. To the guy that quoted me, I don't fully understand your question, I apologize for not responding to you, but here's a guess:
I've had games with everyone on the team had a positive k/d except that one guy who was 0/15/2, you win TDM by playing WITH your team, doing anything else just makes you a detriment to said team.

Wut is dis "outside" you speak of.... :lol:

It is true, to get better you need to play better players.  Server browser is not going to magically make people want to play better players, nor is having a newblood pick up.

Currently, while playing any team mode, you'll notice the players that kinda just wander around aimlessly, looking for a target to shoot (that'll quite frequently turn into 3-4 surrounding that poor soul lol).  Others will know how to stick with the team, and go for the objectives, but quite frankly, cant aim for fuzzy bunny :wacko:  (I've literally boosted straight at someone spraying an assault rifle at me and didn't hit me once, I dont know how, I really dont).  Then you have those that know how to aim, and know how to go for objectives.  You'll get a mix match of all 3 in a PUB game.  The problem is, a bad player can bring a team down far easier than a good player can bring it up.  When people suck at a game, they get discouraged, making it harder for them to learn (anyone else play worse when angry?  I know I sure as hell do lol).

By having newblood pickups, it can increase the overall skill of the playerbase, thus reducing the difference in PUBs.  Teach people in controlled environments with people there to help them get better, and they'll be more likely to get better.  By making better players, PUBs get better.  Better PUBs = less rage = more learning opportunity in PUBs.

Right now the current method of players learning is hop in a game, potentially against the best players, and flail about with no idea whats going on.  Doesn't give much incentive to continue playing.  Some people can handle getting beat on day in and day out until they learn, but we don't want the game to only be populated by those people, or we would not have the playerbase we potentially could have.

tldr:
1.  Provide an area for good players to help bad players learn (server browser)
2.  Bad players get better, increasing overall skill of playerbase
3.  PUBs get better, further increasing overall skill of playerbase

#15 burns1124

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Posted January 22 2013 - 12:05 PM

View PostKyRoS, on January 22 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

@burns1124
@

KyRos, apologies for coming off a bit, strong, gotta stop having that extra large coffee before getting to work.

The CoD thing, my bad, and thanks for the clarification.  I find it very sad that your friends can't take a few butt whoopings to learn a game and bail out when it's not something they can instantly pick up and be great at, it's a different FPS, maybe that's why I like it as opposed to all the more mainstream fps games out there.

You said " and the number one complaint is that it's just not fun going up against top tiered players."
How will anyone improve if you aren't playing against someone that makes you push your previously discovered limits?  Thats why I LOVE going against people like RedVan, or Zeshi, they make me rage ya, but they make me play better.  

Money goes to a lot of different places, servers are not cheap, as well as having to fund maintaining them, you and I cannot rightly speculate on where it all went, but 28 million doesn't go that far nowadays.  Look at what 100+ million budget did for SWTOR.

Dev interaction with the community can be a double edged sword, it does not always work in LoL's favor, tho their success IMHO is more attributed to their aggressive marketing and leapfrogging off a community that formed from a Blizzard game.

This is the suggestion forum, simply saying "Auto balance teams" isn't a suggestion, it's a demand.  How is the game supposed to do that for us?  Do you write game code?  Can you drop some knowledge on how the game should place people that get into a game and go 15/0 k/d to make it fair for the guys he's taking out?  Should the 15/0 guy be removed from his game, lose earned exp, and be placed in the midst of another game with people of similar skill?  How would you gauge that skill in a way that using cheap tactics or currently broken mechanics (Heat/Rev-GL knock back/stun lock)  wouldn't sway the MM rating system one way or another.  According to ADH, we will never see our ELO/MM rating whatever you want to call it, and I think that's awesome, because I cannot tell you how sick I am of hearing about my friends LoL ELO, or what league some fuzzy bunny on reddit got to in SC2. Just play the game, if you are good, people will recognize it, always quantifying yourself in comparison to your peers only leads to either arrogance or depression.

Other people in this thread have suggested a server browser, or trying to organize the community.  Yes this game is niche, yes the community is probably a great deal smaller than it's competitors or any of the other games that have potential for esports.  We all try to make the game better or worse when we paly and interact with each other in game.  Try making that experience bette for everyone and the community will grow on it's own.

This game needs a great many things, but I personally feel that ADH is doing it right, they are just new, and small (16 people I think?), and need our understanding and patience, not threads screaming how this game will die with out this or that.

#16 Thallium81

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Posted January 22 2013 - 12:12 PM

I would ideally like to see better matchmaking, seen quite a few lopsided games.
Also I see a lot of games that start out 6v6 and when one team loses the first couple fights HALF the team just quits, making it a 6v3.
Not sure what to do about that, maybe a very small "leaver penalty" to try and prevent this behaviour?
Something like a 5 min deserter status so those people can't just give up and join another game? Or maybe a x0.5 EXP/Point modifier applied to that players next game? Then again, games never used to have these penalties, I think we used to just live with it back in the day! How spoiled we have all become. :)

Another good idea might be to have brand new players play within a walled garden of sorts for the first few games? Like a players first 10-20 games are played against players also within their first 10-20 games. That would allow new players time to get some sense of the game before being thrown in with more skilled players.

Just some ideas...

#17 RedVan

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Posted January 22 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostThallium81, on January 22 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I would ideally like to see better matchmaking, seen quite a few lopsided games.


For all we know, matchmaking is as perfect as it gets right now.  Low playerbase is the problem.  People need to start steering their minds away from this idea that matchmaking is the salvation of the game.

#18 Thallium81

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Posted January 22 2013 - 01:02 PM

View PostRedVan, on January 22 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

View PostThallium81, on January 22 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

I would ideally like to see better matchmaking, seen quite a few lopsided games.


For all we know, matchmaking is as perfect as it gets right now.  Low playerbase is the problem.  People need to start steering their minds away from this idea that matchmaking is the salvation of the game.

And for all you know matchmaking could not be working at all right now... Either way I said IDEALLY. So in an IDEAL situation we would have a larger player base to match from of course. Though what I'm seeing in some games is a VERY clear gap in skills and more importantly, a poor distribution of the skilled players.
ie: A full 8v8 game has one team with 4-5 skilled players. The other team has 1 skilled player and the rest are terrible.
This means that game has 5-6 "skilled" players and 10-11 mediocre to bad players. So an ideally matched game would be each team has 2-3 skilled players and 5-6 unskilled. IDEALLY. What I'm saying is we are seeing a whole lot of teams being just stacked in one teams favour.
This can happen for MANY reasons BESIDES just small playerbase. I agree that people should not just be blaming matchmaking alone, but other people should not also just blame a small playerbase for those same issues. It's due to a whole group of issues, and the more that can be fixed the better.

#19 KyRoS

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Posted January 22 2013 - 01:25 PM

I personally will continue to play, and often be decimated, because I love the game, but also because my 7 year old son likes this game so much. He makes Lego Hawken mech and pretend plays Hawken all the time. He's quite the dedicated fan :)

It seems to be that balancing out the best players would help a lot. Now, of course this relies on the Mech Mastery skill to actually work. I posted some other ideas in this thread that could also help out... http://community.pla...rowsers-are-in/

#20 burns1124

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Posted January 22 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostKyRoS, on January 22 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I personally will continue to play, and often be decimated, because I love the game, but also because my 7 year old son likes this game so much. He makes Lego Hawken mech and pretend plays Hawken all the time. He's quite the dedicated fan :)

It seems to be that balancing out the best players would help a lot. Now, of course this relies on the Mech Mastery skill to actually work. I posted some other ideas in this thread that could also help out... http://community.pla...rowsers-are-in/

Mech Mastery is only a score based on total amounts of content unlocked.  People have been trying to cap it for awhile, and tested it thoroughly, the only thing it gauges is Mechs purchased, level of those mechs, and items unlocked for them iirc.

Adhesive have said many times that there is/will be a hidden matchmaking stat, and it will not be shown to the players in game.  

Quick join MM isn't the answer, some of the folks who have posted in this topic have some good ideas (I personally like the walled garden, but it might still be a little too imbalanced based on players previous experience, like older gamers with a very extensive fps resume)  Personally I'd like the mech walkthrough to be compulsory on login, then allow access to quick match.  We still really need a server browser AS WELL AS proper solo queue and group queue matchmaking much like other games currently have.  I will have faith in adhesive until at which time they cause me to lose that faith.

Edit: Feel free to add me in game if you play on US East at all, I wouldnt mind showing you a few things to help your game, or conversely you can shoot me in the face, my brusier is a TOW magnet.

Edited by burns1124, January 22 2013 - 02:08 PM.





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