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Salvage: An idea to promote player retention within individual lobbies.

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#1
crockrocket

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The Problem

 

As we all know, there are serious issues with people leaving matches either mid-game, or directly following a match. Naturally, this leads to serious issues with matchmaking and game balance. One solution that has been put forward is to give a reward to players who stay in the same server for several matches in a row.

 

 

 

My Proposal

 

Add a chance for a player to receive a salvage bonus at the end of the match, given out at the same time as the HC. This salvage bonus would be in the form of a mech part salvaged from the battlefield, perhaps a limb or maybe even a cockpit. These salvage parts would be exchanged in the store for HC. I envision there being three or more tiers of salvage quality, with the higher tiers being less common, but worth more HC. The probability of receiving a higher quality drop, or even a salvage drop of any kind, would increase with consecutive matches in the same lobby. There would need to by a cap on how long this probability increases in order for salvage to not be completely OP in terms of HC collection; perhaps the cap would be five matches or so. Some careful consideration would be needed to determine the HC values of the various salvage tiers. 

 

I think this is an interesting way to add a reward for staying in the same server for multiple matches while also incorporating the game's lore. I also think this is a good way to keep new players interested, and lessen the impression of an insurmountable grind. The fact that there's a chance something good might drop at the end of a match has an addictive quality as well, and may keep some people in game for longer than normal. At the end of the day this would function similarly to already proposed rewards, but I like the idea of tying in the fact that a bunch of mechs just got blown up. 

 


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#2
OmegaNull

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Not a bad idea. 


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#3
VollX

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That's actually a really good Idea



#4
bacon_avenger

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Bonus points that it fits within the game lore :yes:


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#5
SigmaOmega

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Mmm, I'm lovin' it



#6
GondabBadong

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I don't know about same server, I have left matches after completion just so I can slot into another game a bit more quickly.  Just have it be, "Complete game, get part, and if you drop out of a game, you forfeit the rest of your salvage for that day, if not a set amount of salvage that would equate to a day'  not counting disconnects of course.  Or perhaps have bronze tier, silver tier, and gold tier salvage for consecutive games not dropped out of in addition to it.

 

EDIT:  If the game is over, and I want to play with a different group/a different mode, you shouldn't punish me for this.  It's in game that's the real problem.


Edited by GondabBadong, 23 March 2015 - 01:29 PM.

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#7
crockrocket

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I don't know about same server, I have left matches after completion just so I can slot into another game a bit more quickly.  Just have it be, "Complete game, get part, and if you drop out of a game, you forfeit the rest of your salvage for that day, if not a set amount of salvage that would equate to a day'  not counting disconnects of course.  Or perhaps have bronze tier, silver tier, and gold tier salvage for consecutive games not dropped out of in addition to it.

 

EDIT:  If the game is over, and I want to play with a different group/a different mode, you shouldn't punish me for this.  It's in game that's the real problem.

 

I don't see this as a punishment if you don't stay in the same server, but a reward if you do. Now that I've typed that out, I guess it is just semantics and you can look at it either way.

 

However, I do think that part of the balance/matchmaking problem is that so many people jump ship after every match. Of course there are legitimate reasons to do so, as you pointed out. As such, the way I envision this working is similar to what you say in your comment about gold and silver (etc) tiers: they higher quality items have an increased chance of dropping the longer you stay. There would also be a (smaller) base chance for any tier to drop as long as you completed the match, regardless of whether or not it's your first game in a server.

 

Punishing leavers by causing the rest of the days salvage might be an idea too, although I would say they have to leave three times before that happens, just because there are irl reasons to leave a match.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#8
Zilph

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I like this idea, a bonus for staying. However, relinquishing this bonus for the rest of the day by leaving is a punishment, and we really shouldn't have that. The longer you stay, the higher your chances go up... But leaving? That shouldn't remove your chances for the rest of the day, just reset them.

 

Other than that little hitch, I like the idea. Reward players for good behavior, don't punish them for what you consider bad behavior.


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#9
Milithistorian

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Maybe we could have the option for salvaged parts to act like cosmetics as well, like if you find an intact limb you could attach it to your mech. 



#10
crockrocket

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Maybe we could have the option for salvaged parts to act like cosmetics as well, like if you find an intact limb you could attach it to your mech. 

 I had wondered about that as well, but that may raise some concerns with Reloaded's monetization strategy, given that cosmetics are a good source of income.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#11
Interrobang87

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I support this. Long ago in old forum times I had suggested a stacking HC bonus based on how many consecutive games you played.

This is similar plus shinies and I cant resist the shinies

#12
ticklemyiguana

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I don't know about same server, I have left matches after completion just so I can slot into another game a bit more quickly.  Just have it be, "Complete game, get part, and if you drop out of a game, you forfeit the rest of your salvage for that day, if not a set amount of salvage that would equate to a day'  not counting disconnects of course.  Or perhaps have bronze tier, silver tier, and gold tier salvage for consecutive games not dropped out of in addition to it.

 

EDIT:  If the game is over, and I want to play with a different group/a different mode, you shouldn't punish me for this.  It's in game that's the real problem.

 

There's a pretty large consensus in the forums that users leaving a server in order to find another game are a large part of some of the balance issues people face. While I'd encourage Reloaded to cut down on the wait time between games, you're not making anything better by leaving.

 

Not getting a reward you haven't earned isn't a punishment.

 

I like this idea, and would encourage its implementation as a weighted probability of occurrence, with more weight added the more games one is in the server.

 

I'd also like to see the pieces increase in value the longer you hold on to them. Perhaps in the far future, the pieces could be assembled into a model, and sold back for a much greater amount of HC, (or for a special camo) than if they were sold immediately.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 23 March 2015 - 05:33 PM.

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#13
crockrocket

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I'd also like to see the pieces increase in value the longer you hold on to them. Perhaps in the far future, the pieces could be assembled into a model, and sold back for a much greater amount of HC, (or for a special camo) than if they were sold immediately.

Intriguing idea, I like it the idea of the whole being worth more than the sum of the parts. I would also be super down for a "Salvager Camo"


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#14
eth0

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I like that this doesn't directly punish bad players, instead egging pilots on for one more match... or at least the end of the current.
 

Bonus points that it fits within the game lore :yes:

 

Lore is king! I wish I could find spare struts after a game of mayhem.


Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#15
Odra

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Seems like a reasonable incentive.

 

Hopefully such ideas can quickly be given rigorous testing via patches rather than procrastinating waiting for a perfect solution (which we all know don't exist)

 

Often you see devs abstain from testing new directions due to theorized downsides instead of taking a chance and rolling the dice.

 

In this case I would say the salvage bonus would retain some players but it wouldn't affect their drive to overcome the enemy, so it is possible to end with a team who is half-heartedly playing until the time runs out. I will not even mention how the "competitive-driven" players would react to being stuck on such a team.

 

That being said I do see the merit of this suggestion and would like to see it tested.

 

I will say that this only alleviates the results of a one-sided match, but does nothing to address the cause of the problem.

 

What is the cause? I won't deal with absolute certainties as I am not as experienced as others are, nor do I condone experienced players dictating balance policy as that would lead to alienation of new players by creating a "our way or the highway!" environment. I'd simply suggest for Reloaded to take a look at the skill-ceiling of all mechs and mechanics and understand how that relates to both newcomers and the abandonment trends.


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#16
crockrocket

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-snip-

The like cap is really starting to bug the fuzzy bunny out of me.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#17
Grollourdo

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Tho hey one thing I like ur idea but will the prizes be only hc? I don't think there should be any like cosmetics or anything cuz I like the fact that all cosmetics are special when u have them so yeah

I think the prises shouldn't be anything rare just common stuff XD but in a bonus like quantity XD YEAH

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#18
crockrocket

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Tho hey one thing I like ur idea but will the prizes be only hc? I don't think there should be any like cosmetics or anything cuz I like the fact that all cosmetics are special when u have them so yeah

I think the prises shouldn't be anything rare just common stuff XD but in a bonus like quantity XD YEAH

 

The only camo I saw suggested was a single camo specific to this Salvage concept, i.e. if you collect every part of salvage you can redeem it for the salvage camo instead of hc. Normally however it would be for hc only. Tickle suggested the idea of the salvage camo, though I support it. This definetly wouldn't be used to get existing camos however.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#19
Grollourdo

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Ok even that I just.... Well...

To me camps and customizations represent that u support or supported hawken (my view idk about others maybe cuz I've been here with hawken through its silence stages and all but yeah)

So yeah maybe 1camo that is VEEERRRY hard to achieve and not to flashy but still cool XD YEAH

 (\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy bunny into
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And if you dont .... 

 

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(This is also me when u no cooperate in game XD)

#20
Killtek

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I don't know about same server, I have left matches after completion just so I can slot into another game a bit more quickly. 

 

 

Ding Ding Ding!!!!!   This is the number one reason why people leave at end of matches.   Who wants to sit on an end of match screen for 20-30 seconds and then another 20-30 seconds for the start of match screen??? When it's quicker to drop and find a new match to play.

 

They need to lower the time on the end of match screen by 10 seconds.



#21
WastingTime

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Very nice
Couple that with the ability to sell unused bits / mechs & I think we're on the right path


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#22
GondabBadong

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Really, the way the matchmaking system is set up I just hit the gigantic PLAY button on the top of the screen, and get slotted into a game. I didn't even realise there were specific servers Untill I came here and everyone was yelling about balance, and people leaving. The current system downright encourages finding random games to slot into over and over, and the fact that I havn't found the way into the server list... And there is a giant button on the top marked play that everyone is going to use, doesn't scream 'stay after the match' like in another game like TF2.

Plus, if someone feels they have been stomped on all match, they wouldn't want to stay in the same server anyway, as well as the fact that newer players have dailies to do.

#23
crockrocket

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Plus, if someone feels they have been stomped on all match, they wouldn't want to stay in the same server anyway, as well as the fact that newer players have dailies to do.


While this common logic, it also isn't well thought out, since the teams are reshuffled at the start of each match. The best chance of a balanced game occurs when the lobby is full when matchmaking separates the teams. Thus the incentive to remain in server.

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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#24
GondabBadong

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Also the first victory bonus makes me play modes that I might not be feeling up to at the moment, personally I would just play Seige all day, but because of needing that bonus I go into TDM Untill I win, then go to MD, and after that only then do I just play Seige a lot, and doing this has already caused me to leave two servers before ariveing at my intended destination.

#25
CrimsonKaim

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To the autor: you will prevent mid and low mmr players from leaving but not the high ones. I myself for example have more than enough HC to fully buy amd customize two or three mechs (and guess what that is not much). I know players out there with like 200-300 thousand HC. Make it rain. HC is worthless. Reward players with XP multiplier or MC for higher tiers.

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#26
EpicotR

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To the autor: you will prevent mid and low mmr players from leaving but not the high ones. I myself for example have more than enough HC to fully buy amd customize two or three mechs (and guess what that is not much). I know players out there with like 200-300 thousand HC. Make it rain. HC is worthless. Reward players with XP multiplier or MC for higher tiers.


How about if most of the time you get HC and there's a chance to get something rare and cool like a paint or repair bot.. or a new cockpit ornament that you can only get from this "plz stop ragequitting" reward system? How about an uber-rare new mech that you have to assemble part-by-part? Hell I hope they add new mechs soon lol

#27
crockrocket

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To the autor: you will prevent mid and low mmr players from leaving but not the high ones. I myself for example have more than enough HC to fully buy amd customize two or three mechs (and guess what that is not much). I know players out there with like 200-300 thousand HC. Make it rain. HC is worthless. Reward players with XP multiplier or MC for higher tiers.

 

And I think the players who don't already have everything are the ones that are more likely to leave anyway. Those that have been around the block know that they can usually get some better matches if everyone stays in the server.

Additionally, I like the idea of a salvage camo. Something hard to get, something that requires a large assortment of salvage parts and would take a while to complete.


                                                                    JgQjgkx.png

 

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#28
CrimsonKaim

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And I think the players who don't already have everything are the ones that are more likely to leave anyway. Those that have been around the block know that they can usually get some better matches if everyone stays in the server.

Additionally, I like the idea of a salvage camo. Something hard to get, something that requires a large assortment of salvage parts and would take a while to complete.

 

Or how about a nice star next to your name? Shows that you (almost) never leave games.


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#29
CrimsonKaim

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How about if most of the time you get HC and there's a chance to get something rare and cool like a paint or repair bot.. or a new cockpit ornament that you can only get from this "plz stop ragequitting" reward system? How about an uber-rare new mech that you have to assemble part-by-part? Hell I hope they add new mechs soon lol

 

That's also a good idea, but please no OP mechs haha. However, everything is better than HC lol.


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#30
crockrocket

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Or how about a nice star next to your name? Shows that you (almost) never leave games.


A star that you lose if you start abandoning matches, and would have to earn all over again? +1

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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#31
So_Say_We_All

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I like this idea a lot and since it's relevant to the still-present issue of addressing leaving mid-match I'm going to bump this up.  :pirate:



#32
Panzermanathod

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What about players who can't/don't feel like participating in a string of games?



#33
Teljaxx the Unintentional

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I definitely think we need some kind of  reward to keep everyone from leaving after each game. On the old forums, people had suggested simply having an increasing amount of bonus HC for every consecutive game you played. But I like this idea better.

 

To make it more interesting, there could be multiple items per tier, each with a similar but not quite the same sell price.

 

Tier 1: Leg/arm actuator, small armor plate, fuel line, power cables.

Tier 2: Fuel pump, capacitor, camera assembly, radiator.

Tier 3: Large armor plate, ammo feed assembly, booster housing.

Tier 4: Nanocore, viewscreen, computer core, generator.

Tier 5: Full damaged mech limbs, like a Brommens arm, or a Piston leg.

 

And at Tier 5, or whatever the maximum tier is, maybe you could also get useable equipment, like internals and items that you can assign to a single mech. And there could also be a super rare chance to get a free weapon unlock for one of the mechs you own. This might help, since simply getting extra HC might get boring after a while, no matter how fancy the salvage looks. But that small chance of getting a new item or weapon should keep it more interesting.


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#34
crockrocket

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What about players who can't/don't feel like participating in a string of games?

Then they won't be penalized, they just won't get a reward. Positive reinforcement vs. negative.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#35
Grollourdo

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Kind of like the tf2 drop system but mog based on time but based on server stays

Really nice XD

tho didn't I think about this but with random camps in the past??? Idk

~~deja vu~~

Well I love the idea!

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy bunny into
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#36
talons1337

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Why just have it as sellable parts? You know, it would be cool to form a collection of salvaged parts each with their own descriptions/lore and whatever. I certainly wouldn't sell anything that wasn't a duplicate. THE COLLECTION MUST GROW.


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#37
Grollourdo

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CRAFTING SYSTEM IDEA JUST APPEARED!!!

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy bunny into
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And if you dont .... 

 

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(This is also me when u no cooperate in game XD)

#38
StubbornPuppet

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I enjoy the creativity of this suggestion.  Fun and helpful.  Thank you.

 

For the time being though, before Reloaded's folks start work on more complicated implementations like this, I think they should simply make it so that a player who quits anytime during a match, 30 seconds after they've joined, should be unable to join any other match for 5 minutes, as well as lose any and all XP, HC and stats during that match.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#39
comic_sans

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People love RNG.  Maybe make getting a bunch of each kind of scrap unlock a special paint, with different kinds of scrap being dropped from each gamemode.


Edited by &THC& comic_sans, 09 June 2015 - 12:15 PM.

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#40
ticklemyiguana

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I am resurrecting this thread. It is exceptionally salient as a suggestion, has an overload of positive feedback, no valid criticisms as of yet, and I think it needs to be looked at again by Reloaded.


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