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don't bring too much from console over

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#1
Acguy

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Probably not normal to ask for less, but there are a lot of things on console that are just... bad.

 

First you've got the unlock paths preventing you from buying whatever, after that you've got the G2 system that basically asks you to level your mech up twice, and all these other things being switched around.

 

If you need to restrict certain mech access to make people play the game longer, just use the system PC has and let mechs unlock G2 mechs that are totally different. You could let predator unlock the vytro the same way that raider unlocks the marauder for instance. Makes more sense and sure beats having to buy the assault, the brawler, then that weird console-only double-hawkins a-class (which for some reason is the only mech without a G2 upgrade aside from neif), only to have to level the vytro twice. If half the mechs were locked behind just one mech, and the other half could be bought from square one, that wouldn't be such a bad deal.

 

To continue, the best way to handle the changes to the assault mech on console would be to just replace the stats of all existing assault G1 mechs with fred's stat spread (while keeping the assault body parts), then to rename the assault G2 so that it's just "assault" with assault body parts etc (while letting people keep their old vytro parts), and let players unlock it by leveling fred up (or just letting people buy it outright if you think everything should be buyable from square one).

 

I also believe it's already been stated that the internals balance from console won't come over, but the way repair kits and extractors were balanced doesn't seem quite right. I mean, better to have them nerfed improperly than ignored, but extractors got hit way harder when medkits. While standing over an orb, the advanced medkit heals you at the same rate than the expert extractor (expert as in 4 slots). Assuming only the numbers changed and not the core mechanics behind either part, that is. Ultimately there's just no reason to use the extractors, even in siege they aren't super useful. May as well just delete one or the other.

 

Having all internals unlocked regardless of pilot level is a good gesture on console, but the real issue with needing to unlock stuff on PC is that you only unlock one size at a time, starting with the smallest ones, so new players don't often fill up their whole space for internals or items. Let the starting level have some small, medium, and large internals, and rank ups reward internals of varying size instead of having a medium-part rankup and a large-part rankup.

 

Also, to anyone with console experience, is the one-slot air compressor really okay? Does that cause problems? Is it useful, or does the short dodge length and greater fuel consumption kill it?


Edited by Acguy, 30 December 2016 - 06:04 PM.

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#2
Rainbow_Sheep

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I think it's best they're brought to parity first, then changes can be made to both platforms at the same time. From what I've gathered it seems like that's the plan


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#3
Acguy

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If that's the case, I guess the thread could be renamed "bring more from PC to console than from console to PC"



#4
Amidatelion

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If that's the case, I guess the thread could be renamed "bring more from PC to console than from console to PC"


In fairness, though I hate console as much or more than you do, they've already started this process with moving the internal and weapon customization over. There's still a ton of problems, but I think they've recognized many of their mistakes and CZeroFive has admitted as much.
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#5
Acguy

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they've already started this process with moving the internal and weapon customization over. 

 

Uhh... over in which direction? Are you telling me "they know already" or are you telling me "It's too late"?

 

I really don't think we need intenrals like "heavy armor". It's either three or four slots and only adds 5% defense in exchange for a 35% move speed penalty. Even without the penalty, 5% defense is not worth three slots or over.

 

I also just noticed how many size variants they have for each part on console. I honestly don't like it. Imagine making a mosaic out of shattered glass, only all the pieces were cut to easily fit together. It takes something away from the process. Imagine how bored poets would be if their respective language just had ten synonyms for every subject, so that you could always fit something into a rhyme. I guess picking out internals isn't exactly haiku, but the holes in the list of internals is a good thing for a similar reason.

 

I do like the fact that larger parts typically aren't more efficient than others though, the bigger repair kit really doesn't need to give you more effect-per-slot than the smaller ones as it does on PC now.



#6
nepacaka

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I really don't think we need intenrals like "heavy armor". It's either three or four slots and only adds 5% defense in exchange for a 35% move speed penalty. Even without the penalty, 5% defense is not worth three slots or over.

 

you just can't realise one simple things. devs have a "scary good testers", and they know how to play in this game. better than u.

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#7
MomOw

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I think it's best they're brought to parity first, then changes can be made to both platforms at the same time. From what I've gathered it seems like that's the plan

 

I've experienced and read a lot of things about different balancing for the different platform. I think in a PvP shooter either you create enough variety to have several viable builds for each platform and continue to have the same stats, or you make specific balance for the specific platform.

 

I'd prefer the second option.


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#8
Rainbow_Sheep

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I've experienced and read a lot of things about different balancing for the different platform. I think in a PvP shooter either you create enough variety to have several viable builds for each platform and continue to have the same stats, or you make specific balance for the specific platform.

 

I'd prefer the second option.

 

But at the same time, how can you know what would be best for each platform if the platforms don't all start on equal footing? It's best to do an apples to apples side by side comparison before tinkering with balance differences between specific platforms.

 

In the long term, I would definitely different tweaks for different platforms. But short term, you need a baseline to make comparisons off.


Edited by Rainbow_Sheep, 31 December 2016 - 04:27 AM.

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#9
Acguy

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Then please oh god let PC be the baseline. I just now realized how insanely broken armor fusors are on console, they're worse than PC orblording, at least in pubs. On PC the fusor gives you a percentage of your total health over 20 seconds, but on console they give you a flat amount in 10. The three-slot fusor on PC returns 20% on a kill; even if you've got 800 HP, that's 160 hp over 20 seconds, at a rate of 8 hp/s. The one slot fusor on console gives 10 hp/s for 10 seconds, and the three slot gives 20 hp/s. And again, this is independent of your base health. You can slap another 200 HP on your zerker for a net 550 health within a drawn out fight. I get that it's probably better to make the part favor heavy mechs less, but 200 hp? That doesn't strike you as a bit much?

 

Right now on PC even the two slot extractor gives 30% faster healing while over an orb, which heals at a base rate of around 38 hp/s, meaning that the extractor adds around 11.5 more hp/s while over an orb, and only while over an orb, without increasing the total amount of HP you can even absorb, which is only 170 without a medkit. Even with the largest extractor and medkit on PC, at the cost of five slots, you're only adding 21 hp/s to the orb's base rate, which is only barely faster than the three-slot console fusor's 20 hp/s (which can be used on or off an orb). And on top of that, the console fusor ALONE, with NO ORB, heals you for 200, while the largest medkit on PC only gives you arounc 40 extra health per orb and gives you 210 health total. The fusor is literally mobile-orblording, only without an orb. And you can stack an orb's healing on top of it to boot if you want 270 hp and 58 hp/s.

 

Maybe I'm beating a long since dead horse, but how did the people in charge of balance give that the thumbs up? They heard people complaining about the ability to add 21 hp/s to the orb's healing rate, so they decided to let people heal at basically the same speed without an orb at all. The only catch is that orblords can throw out an orb mid-fight, whereas someone with a fusor needs to get a kill before the effect activates, but outside of that the fusor really outpowers PC orblording. 

 

Edit: accidentally said the fusor healed for 250 instead of 200.


Edited by Acguy, 03 January 2017 - 07:46 AM.


#10
Sriracha_Sauce

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When the original devs went under they acknowledged that the game wasn't in a totally balanced state and they were working on balancing it when development stopped

That's the reason why the Hellfires are only kind of not fixed, devs nerfed them and then planned to buff them incrementally until they were in a good spot but they never got around to it

I figure the old devs had plans for other stuff too but couldn't do it because they went out of business.

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#11
Acguy

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So allegedly any tow-assault owned PC might remain unchanged. According to C05, the weapons will not be changed, and the stats may or may not be normalized [to Fred's new stats]. G2 Fred has equal-or-greater stats than PC Fred, with the exception of fuel recovery, making it almost a complete buff. The fuel recovery rate remains greater than the assault's, and it now has greater air speed and as equivalent walking speed compared to the assault. It also has less of a health deficit than it used to. Here's how the comparison between tow-assault and fred changes with the new fred G2 we'll be getting form console, assuming nothing changes:

 

Spoiler

 

Personally I still do prefer the Assault's stats even though its only advantages are armor and boost speed, but I might change my opinion if we get the console armor fusor, which gives a flat amount of health instead of scaling off of your max hp.

 

As far as everything else goes, the grenadier has it's secondary replaced with a rev and the ability changed to a turret mode, while the vanguard loses the smc and is given a baby bear instead. The assault G2 no longer comes with vytro parts (even though the description oddly claims it has them). Currently on console you also can't even buy non-native torso parts for your mechs, but according to C05 you won't have them removed from your current mechs if you already bought them. This means if you want to disguise a predator as a vytro or a civ, do so now. However your predator will be completely outclassed by the G2 predator if the console's G2 system is brought over, though C05 has stated that the power-creep G2 system ought to be changed.


Edited by Acguy, 04 January 2017 - 03:56 PM.


#12
6ixxer

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[snip]...are you telling me "It's too late"?

 

I really don't think we need intenrals like "heavy armor". [snip]

 

I also just noticed how many size variants they have for each part on console. I honestly don't like it. [snip]

I would say 'too late', the decision has been made to unify the code bases and they will more likely add the features to the unified code base (ie: the console one)

 

I don't think RLD cares about the community opinions at this juncture. They no doubt have their plans set in concrete and are busily working towards it. Ask C05 about the code freeze, if you somehow managed to miss the dozen times he's mentioned it.

 

Then please oh god let PC be the baseline. [snip]

 

Maybe I'm beating a long since dead horse, but how did the people in charge of balance give that the thumbs up? [snip]

 

Sorry, i think that horse has been glue for a long time.

With the new code bases supposed ability to balance mechs separately, I'd like to see them tweaking balance numbers at least monthly, but it appears they don't have someone dedicated to that. 

 

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#13
Onstrava

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I believe they will bring absolutely...EVERYTHING from the console version to PC regardless of whither it's op, broken, or down right useless without a second thought. Then we will all revel in the Glory of our new founded Mech Overloads and "skilled players" and beg the Hawken Gods to deliver us from this atrocity to humanity. And our supreme Hawken Gods will answer....NO.(working as intended) In about 3 month or so after..you know..the usual wait time. *cries*


Edited by Onstrava, 05 January 2017 - 03:48 AM.

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#14
Arkhaun

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When we get our relaunch, we will trade our freedom for secure population

 

though we have the right to bear our rusty old WMD we call Legacy mechs

 

I gotta admit, it sure is gonna be weird bumping into another pc player after we trickle in.

...Just that feeling that his flak scoot is gonna give you when you glimpse his first fly by trying to give you that same old run for your money shazbot as usual just before you thrust out in your assault listening for that faint humming of his on-coming thrusters as you prep the TOW to carry out another trade...

 


Edited by Arkhaun, 10 January 2017 - 02:45 PM.

SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#15
Star_Fighter_98a

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I think it's best they're brought to parity first, then changes can be made to both platforms at the same time. From what I've gathered it seems like that's the plan

just bad to be the one that says that but im waiting for this parity update since a lifetime not beliving this ever hapens :(






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