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Petition: Changing the feel

- - - - - Feel Point-D

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#1
americanbrit14

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Everyone who's been with the game for a long time knows that the Point-D vulcan looks amazing, and sounds amazing, but is actually quite lackluster in its output.  It does damage, yes, but it has a slower rate of fire than the SMC for gods sake.

 

The Vulcan family of guns are all very satisfying to use, but don't shoot all that fast, for the VulcanXTs this is fine, however, the Point-D Vulcan is different and sounds like it is so much more than it is.

 

So here's what I say, Double the Point-D's fire rate, or even triple it, and adjust its damage accordingly.  This won't be a buff or a nerf, but just a change in feeling, so that it can be what it is trying so hard to be.

 

 

What does everyone think of this? good idea? null and void? 

 

 

 

I'm also curious to hear how that would actually play in terms of numbers and damage reductions because as we all know those are percentage based, and if something does more bullets, but less damage, things get weird


Edited by americanbrit14, 13 February 2017 - 06:58 PM.

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#2
Amidatelion

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Uh.

The Point-D is better than the XT in every way, dude.

Maybe stop playing trash mechs and put it on something that can use it?
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#3
crockrocket

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Point D is already a good weapon...

 

And I would argue that its badass sound accurately represents its DPS.


Edited by crockrocket, 14 February 2017 - 03:05 AM.

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#4
Rainbow_Sheep

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Point D is already a good weapon...

 

And I would argue that its badass sound accurately represents its DPS.

 

 

 

This won't be a buff or a nerf, but just a change in feeling

 

Edited by Rainbow_Sheep, 14 February 2017 - 03:18 AM.

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#5
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#6
wischatesjesus

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I'm for this. The reason that the vulcan and its minigun-trope counterparts sound like a Gundam blowing a raspberry is that they shoot upwards of 100 rounds PER SECOND. Meanwhile the Pointy shoots a grand total of 8.33 shots per second, which is lower than the SMC's 8.7.

 

Assuming it would not change the actual DPS or HPS, only the rate of fire, it would actually help distinguish the gun from the two counterparts in another way: hit sounds. Getting way more hit sounds a second would drastically change the audio feedback as compared to the SMC or AR.

 

I propose refire rate, damage per shot, and heat per shot all be divided by 3. This would result in a rate of fire of 25 rps, damage of 4.84-1.68 (same falloff model), and .292 heat per shot. This would result in the same damage and heat per second, but at 3 times the rate of fire.


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#7
coldform

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the sound of the Point-D Vulcan is akin to the Phalanx CIWS Point-Defense system's 20mm Vulcan cannon, although the IRL appearance of the weapon is closer to the appearance of the Incinerator's B3AR series of weapons.

 

I would also agree with hyginos's Idea concerning changing the stats of the weapon.


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#8
__harambe_

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ROF up is still a buff I think. Even if total dps stays the same. If you can make a minuscule correction each shot, you get better tracking with higher ROF. Just sayin



#9
MechFighter5e3bf9

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I'm for this. The reason that the vulcan and its minigun-trope counterparts sound like a Gundam blowing a raspberry is that they shoot upwards of 100 rounds PER SECOND. Meanwhile the Pointy shoots a grand total of 8.33 shots per second, which is lower than the SMC's 8.7.

 

Assuming it would not change the actual DPS or HPS, only the rate of fire, it would actually help distinguish the gun from the two counterparts in another way: hit sounds. Getting way more hit sounds a second would drastically change the audio feedback as compared to the SMC or AR.

 

I propose refire rate, damage per shot, and heat per shot all be divided by 3. This would result in a rate of fire of 25 rps, damage of 4.84-1.68 (same falloff model), and .292 heat per shot. This would result in the same damage and heat per second, but at 3 times the rate of fire.

i'd bet that they chose higher damage bullet for mini bullet and low rate of fire to prevent lag

 

edit: i recall quite a few minigun parties that lagged server tps to fuzzy bunny when they started battling heavy same time


Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 15 February 2017 - 03:01 AM.

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#10
CraftyDus

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let's retool the farthammer

 

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#11
SS396

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The reason that the vulcan and its minigun-trope counterparts sound like a Gundam blowing a raspberry is that they shoot upwards of 100 rounds PER SECOND.

 

Not quite.  The audio of that video sounds to me like its mostly from different M-134 miniguns, which normally operate at 3000 to 3500 RPM, There might be one in there thats been ramped up to 4700, but none of them sound like they are running at 6000.  Trust me when you hear one of those things running at 6000, you would recognize it anywhere.

 

The one at the 13 second mark sounded to me like its a GAU-8 thats used on an A-10 (and normally it runs at 3900 RPM).  I didn't hear any that sounded like a M61.  Vulcans have a much lower droning tone to them.

 

 

 

the sound of the Point-D Vulcan is akin to the Phalanx CIWS Point-Defense system's 20mm Vulcan cannon, although the IRL appearance of the weapon is closer to the appearance of the Incinerator's B3AR series of weapons.

 

I don't think the current audio sounds anything like the Phalanx in operation.

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Phalanx sounds way better.

 

 

i'd bet that they chose higher damage bullet for mini bullet and low rate of fire to prevent lag

 

Exactly, the servers would just be flooded with excess packets.

 

 

 

What I'd personally like them to change about all the vulcans is the lame spin up delay, there is NONE IRL.  You press the button and it starts spewing rounds, the only thing they got right was the freewheeling of the barrels when you let go.

 

There used to be better audio for the vulcans in one of the closed betas, I forgot when they changed it out for the lamer audio we have now.


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#12
wischatesjesus

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Not quite.  The audio of that video sounds to me like its mostly from different M-134 miniguns, which normally operate at 3000 to 3500 RPM, There might be one in there thats been ramped up to 4700, but none of them sound like they are running at 6000.  Trust me when you hear one of those things running at 6000, you would recognize it anywhere.

 
That's fair, I was just trying to express that the fabric ripping type sound is something that is characteristic of fire rates far above 8.33. Admittedly, I don't know the exact ROF of various rotary barrel weapons off the top of my head, so I just googled "minigun fire rate" and used the first result.

 

From wikipedia:
 

The M134 Minigun is a 7.6251mm NATO, six-barrel rotary machine gun with a high rate of fire (2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute)

 
hence "upwards of 100".

 

 

I'm curious what kind of rate of fire the servers could deal with though. Now that it is mentioned 25 per second does seem a bit high to do without some extrapolation or other shenanigans, and C05 mentioned at one point that they had a mech prototype moving fast enough that the servers had trouble with it, so I can see that limit being not all that high.


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#13
SS396

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That's fair, I was just trying to express that the fabric ripping type sound is something that is characteristic of fire rates far above 8.33. Admittedly, I don't know the exact ROF of various rotary barrel weapons off the top of my head, so I just googled "minigun fire rate" and used the first result.

 

 

Yeah, I was just commenting on the info posted, thats all.  I just felt the 6000 was a bit of a stretch.  Even now that Dillons reengineered the delinkers and entire housing out of stronger and lighter materials they aren't reliably pushing that sort of feed rate.


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#14
MechFighter5e3bf9

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Not quite.  The audio of that video sounds to me like its mostly from different M-134 miniguns, which normally operate at 3000 to 3500 RPM, There might be one in there thats been ramped up to 4700, but none of them sound like they are running at 6000.  Trust me when you hear one of those things running at 6000, you would recognize it anywhere.

 

The one at the 13 second mark sounded to me like its a GAU-8 thats used on an A-10 (and normally it runs at 3900 RPM).  I didn't hear any that sounded like a M61.  Vulcans have a much lower droning tone to them.

 

 

 

 

I don't think the current audio sounds anything like the Phalanx in operation.

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Phalanx sounds way better.

 

 

 

Exactly, the servers would just be flooded with excess packets.

 

 

 

What I'd personally like them to change about all the vulcans is the lame spin up delay, there is NONE IRL.  You press the button and it starts spewing rounds, the only thing they got right was the freewheeling of the barrels when you let go.

 

There used to be better audio for the vulcans in one of the closed betas, I forgot when they changed it out for the lamer audio we have now.

 

 

i think making it a three barrel heavy bullet minigun would match up the sound wityh actual rate of fire like in alien versus predator 2 this minigun actualy fired more bullets(vectors you can modify in cfg) than the sound so it was a real monster https://youtu.be/qMc3faI5ufo?t=9


Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 17 February 2017 - 05:44 PM.


#15
MomOw

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I'm for this. The reason that the vulcan and its minigun-trope counterparts sound like a Gundam blowing a raspberry is that they shoot upwards of 100 rounds PER SECOND. Meanwhile the Pointy shoots a grand total of 8.33 shots per second, which is lower than the SMC's 8.7.

 

Assuming it would not change the actual DPS or HPS, only the rate of fire, it would actually help distinguish the gun from the two counterparts in another way: hit sounds. Getting way more hit sounds a second would drastically change the audio feedback as compared to the SMC or AR.

 

I propose refire rate, damage per shot, and heat per shot all be divided by 3. This would result in a rate of fire of 25 rps, damage of 4.84-1.68 (same falloff model), and .292 heat per shot. This would result in the same damage and heat per second, but at 3 times the rate of fire.

 

I think that for technical reasons full auto guns with rof higher than 12~15 rounds per second should be avoided. But yes a Point-D with a higher would be nice.


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#16
Murder_by_Spoon

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The 1 thing that's always bothered me is the difference in sound between when you're shooting a Point-D and when you're hearing somebody else's Point-D
I like the 3rd person sound more than the "gear grinding" sound in 1st person.

What impact would the change have in-game? I guess if the target dashes across your reticle, with a higher rof you have a good chance of doing more damage than with a slower rof, since a slow rof could miss completely of land 1 or 2 shots, compared to maybe 5 with the suggested change. Is that it?



#17
Epsilon_Knight

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I'd be in favor of upping fire rate while maintaining the DPS.

 

I'd even say *slightly* up the DPS.  Point D has all of 15 more DPS above SMC, ~105 vs ~120, at the cost of spin up time, substantially worse accuracy, and building heat 25% faster.  In almost every match the AR and SMC make for more favorable choices.  I see vulcan on Assaults more than anything and that's because their ability brings the weapon back into reasonable parity with the other hitscan SUSTAIN weapons.

 

Just this turboscrub's thoughts.


Edited by Epsilon_Knight, 09 May 2017 - 11:12 PM.





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